Ricochet has run a number of pieces about Bernie Sanders and his campaign. Can you outline your attitude towards his campaign?
We had a lot in common, and I applaud the Sanders campaign for what they were trying to do. I myself have had enough experience in the Democratic Party to know that it only lets you go so far. We have an enormous amount in common: calling for an economy that works for everyday people, for unions’ rights, for living wages, for health care as a human right and, in general, an economy that works for everyday people and reining in Wall Street. But when it gets down to fine print, there are a number of details where we differ and some big issues as well. So, for example, we think that the war budget — spending 54 per cent of our discretionary dollars on a massive, bloated military budget — is unacceptable. We think it needs to be cut.
We're arguing for a peace offensive to stop ISIS in its tracks and end the wars for oil. And a peace offensive basically consists of a weapons embargo, because they're mostly coming from the U.S. We can begin this weapons embargo, and we can also impound the funding that is the bank account of the countries that are funding terrorism.
As well, we believe we need to hold the Netanyahu government accountable, as all governments must be held accountable. Right now we are paying $8 million a day to maintain the Israeli army, which is in flagrant violation and committing war crimes in these periodic massacres.
We would bail out the students. This is maybe another key difference. In the last campaign, I was the only candidate arguing for free public higher education. This time around, Bernie Sanders is also taking up that call, which is great. We are, however, the only campaign that is calling for canceling student debt. We did it for the crooks on Wall Street who crashed the economy with waste, fraud and abuse, that's the least we can do for the generation that is a victim of the economic disaster.
Issues in common between Canada and the U.S.?
And my impression is that Canada has done a much better job than the U.S. of preserving its democracy, which is under assault everywhere. But in Canada you still have something of a grip on it, more than we do here. Certainly, what happened with the Quebec student movement is an inspiration to people who are proponents of justice and sustainability everywhere. And the Idle No More movement has also been inspiring for its holding high the incredible wisdom and power of Indigenous communities and their role in preserving, protecting and guiding our environment.
You've seen a vast expansion of the surveillance state in the U.S., and in Canada. What do you think is behind all of this?
The war abroad tends to create a war at home. And we have militarized society here at home. I think it's inseparable from this global assault on our democracy, our economy, our ecology and our future in general. The military-industrial-security complex has enormous power to call the shots in the Democratic and Republican parties.So in the same ways that we have these inexcusable wars that are making us less secure, not more secure, we also have this state of fear at home that has allowed the surveillance state to basically take power and to win these bills that are a disaster. We need to make peace with the world, stop being a dominator and start being a collaborator and restore and maintain our liberties here at home.
Some Canadian rifles ended up in Yemen through Canada’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia. Can you talk about your advocacy for an end to arms trade with Saudi Arabia?
When you look at consequences of these insane wars are, this so-called war on terror, which is really a war for oil — in many ways the war in Syria is a proxy war over who gets to put their pipeline through Syria. Is it going to be Russia, to the benefit of their ally Iran and current supporter Assad in Syria? Or will it be going to be the Saudis and the Qataris and their pipelines? That's kind of a major factor in this war, some would say the major driving factor.
Who is benefiting here? It's the weapons industry, the war manufacturers who are making out like bandits, arming all sides. Failed states, worse terrorist threats and mass refugees migrations — this is a catastrophic policy. I believe Canada and certainly the U.S.,
we are violating our own laws by selling to countries that are guilty of violating human rights and committing war crimes. And certainly that is true of the Saudis, who are doing that in Yemen, where thousands of civilians have been killed in this absolutely horrific war, as well as the human rights abuses going on in Saudi Arabia itself. We have international laws here which were very hard won and it’s time to start abiding by them.
You've spoken at length about how we need to stop voting for “lesser evil” candidates. But what would you say to someone who is worried about the effects of voting for you in a very close swing state? Noam Chomsky, for example, has said that he would vote for you, given that he's in Massachusetts, but would not if he was in a swing state.
Great question and thanks for for asking it like that, because I think it's really important to address it straight on. I would say that that the predator political parties are working overtime to try and hold on. So let's take a look at what this politics of fear has done. We've been told for quite a while that they don't dare stand up and vote their values, that they'll get all these terrible things. Unfortunately, the record is very clear. We've gotten all of those terrible things anyhow. Silencing ourselves is not the solution. The lesser evil basically discourages people from coming out to vote. We have to stand up and stand tall and stand for our values and the solutions that we desperately need. Sometimes I call this the “hail Mary” moment, because it's kind of now or never. The climate is crashing and the economy is on the verge of another crash. The Democrats didn't fix it. They're not going to fix the economy. Let's stop pretending that the lesser evil is going to be on our side. It's sponsored by the same corporate predators. It's time to reject the lesser evil and stand up and fight for the greater good like our lives depend on it because, guess what folks, they do.So don't let them intimidate you out of your power. We have the power. It's the only way forward. It's time to stand up and use it.
You've seen a vast expansion of the surveillance state in the U.S., and in Canada. What do you think is behind all of this?
The war abroad tends to create a war at home. And we have militarized society here at home. I think it's inseparable from this global assault on our democracy, our economy, our ecology and our future in general. The military-industrial-security complex has enormous power to call the shots in the Democratic and Republican parties. So in the same ways that we have these inexcusable wars that are making us less secure, not more secure, we also have this state of fear at home that has allowed the surveillance state to basically take power and to win these bills that are a disaster. We need to make peace with the world, stop being a dominator and start being a collaborator and restore and maintain our liberties here at home.
Might we ever see a meeting between yourself and the Democratic nominee?
We have tried communicating with all kinds of Democrats to keep those doors of communication open, and it has never worked. We've even communicated with the Sanders campaign. The Green party wrote the Sanders campaign before he had declared and urged him to run as a Green. And we have never gotten a reply. We would still love to explore collaborative solutions because at the end of the day we've got to work together here. I'm all for collaborating based on principles and open to those conversations. I've yet to find the Democrat that will have them.
On Sanders specifically, you've spoken of your candidacy as a necessary plan B for his supporters.
There have been efforts to reform the Democrats before. Many people just don't want to keep going around this block. It's clear that we have to build something that doesn't just get reabsorbed into the Democratic party. The party over and over again does a fake left while it moves right. It becomes more corporatist, more militarist and more imperialist, and the billionaires get richer and more in control. It hasn't been working for decades.Many of his supporters are also our supporters. If you go to our Facebook page you'll see that there's joint support all over the place. So for many people we're plan B. For others who feel that the Democratic party is not going to let Sanders survive and is incapable of solving this problem, we're plan A. Whereas independent politics, I think we are just rediscovering it. We see a surge around the Sanders campaign because austerity has really thrown people under the bus. This is where plan A and plan B come together and they need to come together quickly because the clock is ticking. Ralph Nader, pointed out that all the reasons liberals and progressives are told they should vote for a Democratic candidate—Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Barack Obama and now Hillary Clinton—are wrong. These Democratic politicians have never worked to halt the expanding wars, end the assault on civil liberties, curb the looming ecocide, halt the offshoring of jobs or stop the bailouts to Wall Street—$800 billion under President George W. Bush and $16 trillion under Obama. The corporate state, with the complicity of the Republican and Democratic party leaderships, continues to ravage the planet and disembowel the country.
MORE FROM JILL ~
The course of recent events has made it apparent we need to go outside of the Democratic Party to effect real change. American politics is a two party system. The country is roughly split down geographic lines that mirror an ideological divide: urban liberal elites versus rural conservative populists.Democrats versus Republicans.
The deadlocked split between the two main forces in American politics hasn't allowed for a viable third party movement. The Republican Party has successfully absorbed right wing movements and the Democrats have absorbed left wing movements. The trade deals as evidence of this. Who is pushing the Trans Pacific Partnership? President Obama and the Democrats. The TPP is putting investors on same level of nation states. Anyone who supports it should be taken to court and accused of treason. The TPP is dismantling of the framework of democracy. And the fact is, the Democrats are leading the charge.
The Obama presidency has spent its time expanding war and attacking our civil liberties. On civil liberties, on the press, using the espionage laws, Obama has been the worst president in history. And there's been no-one worse for immigrants.
There's a lot of lovely rhetoric on climate change, but no action. Production of fossil fuel has skyrocketed under Obama. The administration's self-proclaimed environmental successes don't ring true.
"Deep state" is shorthand for "predatory banks, fossil fuel giants, and the war industry. A consequence of concentrated political power in the hands of just two parties is a correlated concentration of targeted influence by the powerful.
Sanders has taken the right domestic positions in the wrong party. They will seek to destroy his campaign if he gets close to securing the nomination.
"Clinton is stacking delegates already," Stein sighed, "It's over. The party machinery is behind her. They destroyed Howard Dean and they destroyed Dennis Kucinich. The Democratic Party will dismantle any truly threatening campaign."
Stein and the Green Party are offering an alternative to the Democrats, she said. The Green Party represents a real leftist party in American politics that will stand by its principles. And if Stein is lucky enough to be the party's nominee again in 2016, she hopes to bring the party's message from its nominating convention in Houston in August to the nation.
